discussion board Posts

I occasionally go back to my blogging archives to pick out interesting articles from one, five and ten years ago.

ONE YEAR AGO: The Not-Quite-So Young Quakers

It was five years ago this week that I sat down and wrote about a cool
new movement I had been reading about. It would have been Jordan Cooper's blog that turned me onto Robert E Webber's The Younger Evangelicals, a look at generational shifts among American Evangelicals. In retrospect, it's fair to say that the QuakerQuaker community gathered around this essay (here's Robin M's account of first reading it) and it's follow-up We're All Ranters Now (Wess talking about it).

And yet? All of this is still a small demographic scattered all around. If I wanted to have a good two-hour caffeine-fueled bull session about the future of Friends at some local coffeeshop this afternoon, I can't think of anyone even vaguely local who I could call up. I'm really sad to say we're still largely on our own. According to actuarial tables, I've recently crossed my life's halfway point and here I am still referencing generational change. How I wish I could honestly say that I could get involved with any committee in my yearly meeting and get to work on the issues raised in "Younger Evangelicals and Younger Quakers". Someone recently sent me an email thread between members of an outreach committee for another large East Coast yearly meeting and they were debating whether the internet was an appropriate place to do outreach work--in 2008?!?

Published 9/14/2008.

FIVE YEARS AGO: Vanity Googling of Causes

A poster to an obscure discussion board recently described typing a particular search phrase into Google and finding nothing but bad information. Reproducing the search I determined two things: 1) that my site topped the list and 2) that the results were actually quite accurate. I've been hearing an increasing number of stories like this. "Cause Googling," a variation on "vanity googling," is suddenly becoming quite popular. But the interesting thing is that these new searchers don't actually seem curious about the results. Has Google become our new proof text?

Published 10/2/2004 in The Quaker Ranter.

TEN'ISH YEARS AGO: War Time Again
This piece is about the NATO bombing campaign in Serbia (Wikipedia). It's strange to see I was feeling war fatigue even before 9/11 and the "real" wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

There's a great danger in all this. A danger to the soul of America. This is the fourth country the U.S. has gone to war against in the last six months. War is becoming routine. It is sandwiched between the soap operas and the sitcoms, between the traffic and weather reports. Intense cruise missile bombardments are carried out but have no effect on the psyche or even imagination of the U.S. citizens.

It's as if war itself has become another consumer good. Another event to be packaged for commercial television. Given a theme song. We're at war with a country we don't know over a region we don't really care about. I'm not be facetious, I'm simply stating a fact. The United States can and should play an active peacemaking role in the region, but only after we've done our homework and have basic knowledge of the players and situation. Isolationism is dangerous, yes, but not nearly as dangerous as the emerging culture of these dilettante made-for-TV wars.

Published March 25, 1999, Nonviolence.org

I wrote this in Eighth Month 2004 for the Plainandmodestdress discussion group back when the red dress MacGuffin made it's appearance on that board.

I wonder if it's not a good time for the Margaret Fell story. She was one of the most important founders of the Quaker movement, a feisty, outspoken, hardworking and politically powerful early Friend who later married George Fox.

The story goes that one day Margaret wore a red dress to Meeting. Another Friend complained that it was gaudy. She shot back in a letter that it was a "silly poor gospel" to question her dress. In my branch of Friends, this story is endlessly repeated out of context to prove that "plain dress" isn't really Quaker. (I haven't looked up to see if I have the actual details correct--I'm telling the apocryphal version of this tale.)

Before declaring her Friend's complaint "silly poor gospel" Margaret explains that Friends have set up monthly, quarterly and yearly meeting structures in order to discipline those walking out of line of the truth. She follows it by saying that we should be "covered with God's eternal Spirit, and clothed with his eternal Light."

It seems really clear here that Margaret is using this exchange as a teaching opportunity to demonstrate the process of gospel order. Individuals are charged with trying to follow Christ's commands, and we should expect that these might lead to all sorts of seemingly-odd appearances (even red dresses!). What matters is NOT the outward form of plain dress, but the inward spiritual obedience that it (hopefully!) mirrors. Gospel order says it's the Meeting's role to double-guess individuals and labor with them and discipline them if need be. Individuals enforcing a dress code of conformity with snarky comments after meeting is legalism--it's not gospel order and not proper Quaker process (I would argue it's a variant of "detraction").

This concern over legalism is something that is distinctly Quaker. Other faiths are fine with written down, clearly-articulated outward forms. Look at creeds for example: it's considered fine for everyone to repeat a set phrasing of belief, even though we might know or suspect that not everyone in church is signing off on all the parts in it as they mutter along. Quakers are really sticklers on this and so avoid creeds altogether. In worship, you should only give ministry if you are actively moved of the Lord to deliver it and great care should be given that you don't "outrun your Guide" or add unnecessary rhetorical flourishes.

This Plain and Modest Dress discussion group is  meant for people of all sorts of religious backgrounds of course. It might be interesting some time to talk about the different assumptions and rationales each of our religious traditions bring to the plain dress question. I think this anti-legalism that would distinguish Friends.

For Friends, I don't think the point is that we should have a formal list of acceptable colors--we shouldn't get too obsessed over the "red or not red" question. I don't suspect Margaret would want us spending too much time working out details of a standard pan-Quaker uniform. "Legalism" is a silly poor gospel for Friends. There's a great people to be gathered and a lot of work to do. The plainness within is the fruit of our devotion and it can certainly shine through any outward color or fashion!

If I lived to see the day when all the Quakers were dressing alike and gossiping about how others were led to clothe themselves, I'd break out a red dress too! But then, come to think about it, I DO live in a Quaker world where there's WAY TOO MUCH conformity in thought and dress and where there's WAY TOO MUCH idle gossip when someone adopts plain dress. Where I live, suspenders and broadfalls might as well be a red dress!

A few weeks ago a newsletter brought written reports about the latest round of conflict at a local meeting that's been fighting for the past 180 years or so. As my wife and I read through it we were a bit underwhelmed by the accounts of the newest conflict resolution attempts. The mediators seemed more worried about alienating a few long-term disruptive characters than about preserving the spiritual vitality of the meeting. It's a phenomena I've seen in a lot of Quaker meetings.

Call it the FDR Principle after Franklin D Roosevelt, who supposedly defended his support of one of Nicaragua's most brutal dictators by saying "Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch." Even casual historians of Latin American history will know this only led to fifty years of wars with reverberations across the world with the Iran/Contra scandal. The FDR Principle didn't make for good U.S. foreign policy and, if I may, I'd suggest it doesn't make for good Quaker policy either. Any discussion board moderator or popular blogger knows that to keep an online discussion's integrity you need to know when to cut a disruptive trouble-maker off--politely and succintly, but also firmly. If you don't, the people there to actually discuss your issues--the people you want--will leave.

I didn't know how to talk about this until a post called Conflict in Meeting came through Livejournal this past First Day. The poster, jandrewm, wrote in part:

Yet my recognition of all that doesn't negate the painful feelings that arise when hostility enters the meeting room, when long-held grudges boil over and harsh words are spoken.  After a few months of regular attendance at my meeting, I came close to abandoning this "experiment" with Quakerism because some Friends were so consistently rancorous, divisive, disruptive.  I had to ask myself: "Do I need this negativity in my life right now?"

I commented about the need to take the testimonies seriously:

I've been in that situation. A lot of Friends aren't very good at putting their foot down on flagrantly disruptive behavior. I wish I could buy the "it eventually sorts out" argument but it often doesn't. I've seen meetings where all the sane people are driven out, leaving the disruptive folks and armchair therapists. It's a symbiotic relationship, perhaps, but doesn't make for a healthy spiritual community.

The unpopular solution is for us to take our testimonies seriously. And I mean those more specific testimonies buried deep in copies in Faith & Practice that act as a kind of collective wisdom for Quaker community life. Testimonies against detraction and for rightly ordered decision making, etc. If someone's actions tear apart the meeting they should be counseled; if they continue to disrupt then their decision-making input should be disregarded. This is the real effect of the old much-maligned Quaker process of disowning (which allowed continued attendance at worship and life in the community but stopped business participation). Limiting input like this makes sense to me.

The trouble that if your meeting is in this kind of spiral there might not be much you can do by yourself. People take some sort of weird comfort in these predictable fights and if you start talking testimonies you might become very unpopular very quickly. Participating in the bickering isn't helpful (of course) and just eats away your own self. Distancing yourself for a time might be helpful. Getting involved in other Quaker venues. It's a shame. Monthly meeting is supposed to be the center of our Quaker spiritual life. But sometimes it can't be. I try to draw lessons from these circumstances. I certainly understand the value and need for the Quaker testimonies better simply because I've seen the problems meetings face when they haven't. But that doesn't make it any easier for you.

But all of this begs an awkward question: are we really building Christ's kingdom by dropping out? It's an age-old tension between purity and participation at all costs. Timothy asked a similar question of me in a comment to my last post. Before we answer, we should recognize that there are indeed many people who have "abandoned" their "Quaker experiment" because we're not living up to our own ideals.

Maybe I'm more aware of this drop-out class than others. It sometimes seems like an email correspondence with the "Quaker Ranter" has become the last step on the way out the door. But I also get messages from seekers newly convinced of Quaker principles but unable to connect locally because of the divergent practices or juvenile behavior of their local Friends meeting or church. A typical email last week asked me why the plain Quakers weren't evangelical and why evangelical Quakers weren't conservative and asked "Is there a place in the quakers for a Plain Dressing, Bible Thumping, Gospel Preaching, Evangelical, Conservative, Spirit Led, Charismatic family?" (Anyone want to suggest their local meeting?)

We should be more worried about the people of integrity we're losing than about the grumpy trouble-makers embedded in some of our meetings. If someone is consistently disruptive, is clearly breaking specific Quaker testimonies we've lumped under community and intergrity, and stubbornly immune to any council then read them out of business meeting. If the people you want in your meeting are leaving because of the people you really don't want, then it's time to do something. Our Quaker toolbox provides us tool for that action--ways to define, name and address the issues. Our tradition gives us access to hundreds of years of experience, both mistakes and successes, and can be a more useful guide than contemporary pop psychology or plain old head-burying.

Not all meetings have these problems. But enough do that we're losing people. And the dynamics get more acute when there's a visionary project on the table and/or someone younger is at the center of them. While our meetings sort out their issues, the internet is providing one type of support lifeline.

Blogger jandrewm was able to seek advice and consolation on Livejournal. Some of the folks I spoke about in the 2003 "Lost Quaker Generation" series of posts are now lurking away on my Facebook friends list. Maybe we can stop the full departure of some of these Friends. They can drop back but still be involved, still engaging their local meeting. They can be reading and discussing testimonies ("detraction" is a wonderful place to start) so they can spot and explain behavior. We can use the web to coordinate workshops, online discussions, local meet-ups, new workship groups, etc., but even email from a Friend thousands of miles away can help give us clarity and strength.

I think (I hope) we're helping to forge a group of Friends with a clear understanding of the work to be done and the techniques of Quaker discernment. It's no wonder that Quaker bodies sometimes fail to live up to their ideals: the journals of  olde tyme Quaker ministers are full of disappointing stories and Christian tradition is rich with tales of the roadblocks the Tempter puts up in our path. How can we learn to  center in the Lord when our meetings become too political or disfunctional (I think I should start looking harder at Anabaptist non-resistance theory). This is the work, Friends, and it's always been the work. Through whatever comes we need to trust that any testing and heartbreak has a purpose, that the Lord is using us through all, and that any suffering will be productive to His purpose if we can keep low and listening for follow-up instructions.

• Quakers going Pagan? A Firm and Loving "No"
  This may be a somewhat new phenomenon to Streib, but it's not to Evangelical Friends. So how do I answer Streib's question? As Evangelical Quakers in Evangelical Friends Church Southwest, the answer is a firm and loving "No".
  (tags: quaker quaker.evangelical)
• Quakers Engaging Jon signs off (for now?)
  Originally I created this blog to be a non-threatening discussion board for people in the Tacoma community. It turned into a forum for unprogrammed and semi-programmed and programmed Friends to interact, share perspectives, and learn from one another.
  (tags: quaker quaker.blogs)
• Twittering a backchannel live feed of a city council meeting!
  I quickly learned that there was a video feed (which I’m working on finding an archive of), and others were watching from afar. And before I knew it…my twittering turned my timeline into a back channel for the Philadelphia City Council Public Hearing
  (tags: tech tech.internetculture comment)

• Paul L explores the realities and myths of Quaker/anarchist links
  I think that Quakers have always carried an anti-authoritarian gene in their DNA -- the affinity you're probably talking about -- and they probably share this gene with others who would characterize themselves as anarchists.
  (tags: quaker quaker.influences)
• Quaker blogs: you can start right here at QuakerQuaker
  Really just a new way of using the QuakerQuaker discussion board, I'm trying to give curious potential bloggers a way of testing the waters before starting an established blog elsewhere.
  (tags: quaker quaker.blogs)

• Billboard: Gandhi quote from Friends in Delaware USA
  An anonymous donor paid for this billboard in Laurel, Delaware, for a full year starting last July. It's visible from southbound Route 13 on the left side of the highway. The Southern Quarter website has a supporting peace page.
  (tags: quaker.signs quaker)
• Johan M: what do church signboards tell the visitor?
  At some point, the meetinghouse sign came up. Several of us confessed our dissatisfaction at what it says. I said that what I really want on our sign is simply this: "We gather here every Sunday at 10:30 to meet with God. Please join us."
  (tags: quaker.signs)
• Ironic & iconic outreach posters from Olympic View Friends Church, Washington USA
  Pop culture mashups, many re-purposing images from the 1950s.
  (tags: quaker quaker.signs)
• 2006 Quaker billboard along Philadelphia highway
  "Peace is Possible," it says. [The location] is probably known best by those who listen to the traffic reports as a place where traffic often backs up. So for two weeks, people stuck in traffic get to meditate on the metaphysics of peace.
  (tags: quaker.signs)
• Chuck Fager's compares meetinghouse signs
  "Quakers?? I thought they all died out." Such confusion is embarrassing, but all too understandable, in view of the fact that so many meetings are all but invisible, even in their own communities. How bad does it get?
  (tags: quaker.signs)
• NYTimes: Atlantic Monthly website gets an overhaul
  The Web site "functioned for too long as just a marketing arm for the print magazine, rather than publication in its own right," said the editor in chief. For years, he said, "it was a very small number of people, working very hard, who kept it alive."
  (tags: tech tech.internetculture)
• LizOpp on borrowing from other traditions what we have ourselves
  What does it say about the condition of our meetings and of our Religious Society when we ourselves don't know enough about our own tradition that we go reaching into another faith tradition...? And religion, like nature, abhors a vacuum.
  (tags: quaker quaker.influences)
• Friendly Funnel on seeking as end in itself
  Sometimes I feel that we Seekers are afraid of finding the Truth, because we wouldn't know what to do with it then. If we are not Seeking, then what are we doing? And this is, I think, a flaw of ours: that we have become connected to the idea of Seeking
  (tags: quaker quaker.alienation)
• Robin M on Quaker committees falling apart
  What if the previous clerk was rightly led to stop? Met with the new clerk, gave the new person all their materials, advice, and best wishes? In both cases, I thought the transition had gone pretty well. I was wrong.
  (tags: quaker quaker.process comment)
• Friendly Funnel: does Quakerism just have class limitations?
  The question of why more people weren't Quakers was raised. One weighty Friend had a simple answer: "Because Quakerism is a religion of Seekers, and most people prefer having answers instead of more questions."
  (tags: quaker quaker.outreach)
• Friend Eden Grace interviewed by PRI radion on violence in Kenya
  The violence in Kenya today was especially fierce in the western town of Kisumu. Anchor Lisa Mullins speaks with long-time Kisumu resident Eden Grace.
  (tags: quaker quaker.audio quaker.witness quaker.kenya)
• Ben L on Quaker Quest's arrival in staid Philadelphia
  Quaker Quest, with its commitment to 21st century P.R., well designed glossy posters and brochures is a way to draw new and "frightening" people to us. QQ is a direct affront to the Quietest pall which has been hanging, smog-like, over my Yearly Meeting.
  (tags: quaker quaker.outreach quaker.liberal)
• Thin Place Dan with personal theories about Quaker Jargon and a beginning lexicon
  Soon after I began attending Quaker meetings, I became aware that Quakers have their own meanings for some words and phrases that are different from the meanings used by non-Quakers. That kind of jargon frequently appears in cultural or vocational groups.
  (tags: quaker quaker.outreach)
• Imperfect Eileen on hearing one another
  After eight years of threshing sessions, discussions, meetings for worship for business, personal conversations, and called meetings for worship, I have the sense that we still have not totally heard each other. We can't just wait this out.
  (tags: quaker quaker.alienation quaker.process)

Apologies to The Church Lady for the title (and apologies to Gregg K, I'm sure the actual sermon on hell from this Newburgh Friends Church pastor is more interesting than anything on Saturday night TV). The parenting links are a start toward a parenting page on QuakerQuaker. Those wanting to help should tag their Del.icio.us bookmarks and Flickr photos as "quaker.parenting"

• Susan Tannehill in Friends Journal: Parenting for Adulthood
  Our children, ages 12 and 8, are being raised within our meeting. Many times in my life as a Friendly parent I find myself not wanting to choose between two alternatives but to look at both of them and find some ground between them.
  (tags: quaker.parenting quaker.friendsjournal)
• Blog: Tree of Life Homeschool
  We're Quaker homeschoolers following the Enki approach to education and just beginning our journey. This is a personal scrapbook, a way for us to connect with other Quaker families and Enki homeschoolers.
  (tags: quaker.parenting)
• Gregg K preaches about hell!
  [M]y attempt to be faithful to obey the leadings of the Spirit for this particular group who are my spiritual community. I would guess that we may have ample opportunity to broaden the discussion. [Follow link in post for sermon]
  (tags: quaker quaker.christianity)
• Susanne K on the fruits of discernment
  What I have learned about discernment is to expect that if I am on the right path, on God's path for me, I will experience the "fruits of the spirit" - a sense of peace and "rightness" at a deeper level than personal emotions of joy, anger, or s
  (tags: quaker quaker.clearness)
• Imperfect Eileen on discernment in children
  I've been thinking about trusting the discernment of our children. It seems to bring together two huge and difficult questions: How do we know if someone else is truly listening to God's guidance? And how do we prepare our children to be adults?
  (tags: quaker quaker.clearness quaker.parenting)
• Chris M recounts sharing Quaker silence with at non-Quaker board retreat
  I helped facilitate a session on Quaker silence as one part of a board retreat for a local organization. We only had 15 minutes scheduled for the actual silence, and most of the group were not Quakers, so we called it "silent reflection/worship time."
  (tags: quaker quaker.outreach)