Comments on: If I don’t make it back.…

By: Calista

Calista — Tue, 13 Mar 2007 01:05:19 +0000

Martin,
Thank you for your comments, and thank you for sharing. By small, possibly grumbling sounds — I meant that instead of voicing my opinion or opposition I grumble, rather lowly to myself and move on. Especially if my opinion is already known. I may get frustrated by I don’t have to have the futile last word.
Example, I work with a man who is Seventh Day, I have much respect for his belief, devotion, and his practices. But he will give me the fifth degree when I voice my opposition to the war, any war, but of course right now this war. I usually will turn around, walk away, grumbling…shhhh very quietly.
Thank you for your insights, your thoughts, your considerations, and your sharing.

By: Martin Kelley

Martin Kelley — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:20:48 +0000

Hi Calista, I’m afraid I don’t quite know what you mean–small, possibly grumbling sounds as a type of spiritual practice?
I’ve afraid that I’ve seen as much ignorance and small-mindedness among Friends as anywhere else. We’re prone to a peculiar pride that simply makes it more sadly ironic. Jesus instructed us that we should “worry about our own troubles before judging others”:http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207%20;&version=9. There are times we must confront bigotry but we have to take great care that we’re not confronting others simply to make ourselves feel better. A lot of activism is misplaced pride, an ineffective agent of change.
About honoring: I find I often feel a strong kinship with people who are committed to God and serious about their spiritual condition. The retreat was certainly “gathered” in the Quaker sense throughout much of the day. My wife spent eleven years among Friends (including academic study) and often has insightful commentary. We’re both open-eyed about the problem areas of our religious traditions but thick-skinned enough to keep from the snares of cynicism. Somehow it works.

By: Calista

Calista — Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:13:01 +0000

After first reading about your mixed evangelical union I wondered how you dealt with the differences in spiritual approach. My husband was raised with a Christian emphasis;I was raised with a Presbyterian influence,but switched to Friends when I was 15 after experiencing other churches and worship services.
Through my education, upbringing, and Quaker influence I have learned to respect all forms of worship and realize that people are drawn to specific doctrines because of their upbringing or the specifics of that religion that answers their own needs.
I am assuming that your wife honors the differences in your worship to her’s and vice versa. If not how do you deal with it? I find it hard to fight annoyance when I stand up against opinions of hatred, violence, and ignorance and usually just end up closing my mouth and making small, possibly grumbling sounds. Many don’t understand this is a moral and spiritual stance for me, but expect me to honor their religious practices.

By: Martin Kelley

Martin Kelley — Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:23:09 +0000

Hi Peggy & Nancy, Well I have gone on retreats with Julie before, natch. And the logistics of squirmy kids, far-away meetinghouses and our mixed spiritual marriage means I actually spend more time in a Catholic Church than any Friends Meetinghouse (as luck would have it her church is moving Sunday morning mass up half an hour after Lent which makes a church/meetinghouse combo logistically possible). I'm comfortable enough in a Catholic setting and have figured out my own balance between acknowledging the importance members give the ritual while acknowledging my own disagreement with the need for ritual. The difference with this retreat is that it was THAT convent with THOSE walls remembered so vividly from my long-gone youthe (fortieth birthday in fifteen days but who's counting?). And just in its defense and our defense (and so Julie doesn't read this and wonder why I didn't say it!), while there are a lot of interesting commonality between Catholicism and Quakerism, they are indeed very different. Look, I'm a traditionalist Quaker married to a traditionalist Catholic: the traditions share an insistence on the very real presence of Christ in our worship and I've often wondered if its totally coincidence that Quakerism grew up in a part of England known for being a Catholic stronghold. But the creeds, rituals, polity, etc., separates our denominations. It's more than just style.

By: Nancy A

Nancy A — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 22:43:57 +0000

Catholicism isn’t all that much different from Quakerism. Quakers use the silence as an empty vessel. Catholics use ritual as an empty vessel. Both have the idea of letting things pour in.
You’ll be fine. The Inquisition was over, last time I checked!

By: Peggy Senger Parsons

Peggy Senger Parsons — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 20:45:46 +0000

Retreat Newbie! kool. You know about the hazing right?
And don’t forget that Holy Water burns the throats of sinners!
Hey, but actually I lock myself in a Benedicten Convent every month for 24 hours plus an hour of spiritual direction with a dear but tough old sister.
It’s like spinich for the soul
Keeps me strong to the ‘finich’
have fun!
Peg