I like your post. It’s all true. At the same time, I think there’s something important about having times of the year when we remember certain things. This doesn’t have to be done ritually–with a Christmas tree (what’s that supposed to remind us of anyway???) or presents or what have you, but it’s been good for me for the last few years to just think of holidays as reminder days. It’s not that God is particularly present on that day or that it’s more holy than other days, but it’s a good time to reflect and remember that part of our story, and see what Christ has to teach to the people himself this year, this moment, on this topic.

This of course doesn’t address your question of what to do regarding Friends of various belief systems, but at least for Friends who call themselves Christians, I don’t think it’s all bad to celebrate Christmas. We just need to do it in a way that calls into question the assumptions of our culture about what Christmas means.

By the way, my father-in-law told me he found your blog the other day by randomly searching on Google on a topic he was interested in…I told him about QuakerQuaker and that it might be an easier way to find blogs he was interested in in the future! =)

Your good thoughts remind me very much on an intriguing line from Gospell of Thomas, “7. Jesus said, “Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man.”” This is about power of consumerizm of course 🙂 — it is hard not to be “consumed” by commercialized “Xmas” ways and things (everybody’s in this desacralized ritual) and it is still harder to “consume” this all humbug in a way that even this collective self-deception would be smething beyond superficial pleasantness and slack affirmation of family-bonds.

At least here in Lithuania, eastern EU, where I live, all the extended family gathering and “magic” of Xmas is used by family women as a scene for gossiping and competition and for men as escapism in pranking, vodka, beer and steam-baths (many rural houses have one). At least the children do enjoy some playing together and recieving toys o other gifts.

What I am mostly revolting against in Lithuanian X‑mas it is this ritualization of “special time” when everybody “should be nice” (mostly insincere, distanced “warmness” and material gifts) to each other and then forgetting that “niceness” in everyday-life. This is a kind of self-deception everybody agrees with lacking the courage and perseverance to exchange freely warm attention in usual, day-to-day conditions.

Speaking about pleasantness of light and colourfull decorations during the wintertime — it is absolutely so, but me personally I refuse to confine these things to a “tree” (although we also have one) :). I use many lamps of various kinds and colourfull prints and other decorations and various table-games or sharades to maintain my family’s (we have three sons) serotonin levels during darkness of winter.

God bless you, in all things friendly — Algis (from Vilnius, Lithuania)

My post from today at Flexible Forms (http://jtblog.lindajohansen.com/2008/12/24/on-moods-advent-and-keeping-holy-days/) speaks to this, partly.

The post explains that my family’s seasonal celebration has been “more polyglot than any pure Quaker would feel entirely comfortable in, but I’m not trying (Was I ever?) to be pure. I’m just thankful to have had my way open to being family with such lively and considerate people.”

Jay T.

I think Friends need to expand the idea of “Christmas” and celebrate the Jewish, Pagan, etc. ceremonies which have had and continue to leave lasting impressions on children and adults.

@Liz Yes the juggernaut of Christmas doesn’t pause for anyone’s moral
scruples!

@Simon I too could imagine Scrooge as a Friend. Fortunately the all-knowing
Wikipedia lists a couple of inspirations for the Scrooge
characterand
none of them seem to be Quaker. I guess we weren’t the only skinflints
in England.

Of course he was fictional, but hmmmm.….

That said, like the Grinch, even the apophatic Quakers can’t keep Christmas from coming on the 25th of Twelfth Month!

Blessings,
Liz Opp, The Good Raised Up

Well, not to me. My experience of committed and radical Christians, particularly within the Society, is not the same as my experience of the kinds of Christians you are telling us people so often assume you are.

Actually, my problem with the way my Meeting celebrated Christmas was not at all about “having Christianity forced on me.” It was about hypocrisy. If the Meeting wanted to celebrate Christmas with a Christmas tree, a Christmas dinner, and Christmas carols, then to my mind the Meeting could choose to do that — I just wanted the Meeting to be honest and open about it, and not pretend the celebration was something it wasn’t. I especially didn’t want them to pretend it was rooted in unprogrammed Quakerism, because it wasn’t (and isn’t). What were we celebrating? The season in general? The birth of Jesus? Peace on Earth and goodwill?

One of my favorite times in my “home” Meeting used to be Easter. That may sound startling. Part of why I enjoyed Meeting for Worship so much each year on that day was the separation of outward observances from Friends’ inward experiences. In particular, I loved hearing committed Christian Friends talk about their experiences of Easter and of Jesus’ resurrection. I loved the honest sharing of our spiritual experiences, something all too rare.

I want there to be room for more of this kind of honesty, from Friends of all kinds of different experiences of the Divine and different thea/ologies. It hurts us all when any of us are asked not to speak the truth of our experience.

Also, don’t assume all Pagan Friends object to Christmas celebrations in our Meetings. There are Pagan Friends who embrace them. I don’t get it, but that’s okay; I don’t have to. 🙂