Comments on: Reach up high, clear off the dust, time to get started

By: Jeanne

Jeanne — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:29:32 +0000

Martin, your words Let's just say that like pretty much all Quaker bureaucracies it's inward-focused, shallow in its public statements, slow to take initiative and more or less irrelevant to any campaign to gather a great people. made me think of a recent New Yorker article about the impending fall of conservatism. Pat Buchanan was less polite, paraphrasing the social critic Eric Hoffer: “Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” So then my question back is, how do you institutionalize change? Because that's what's needed to keep the momentum of the Spirit alive. But that's the conundrum. Change, by its very nature, is opposed to institutionalization. I won't be participating in your study group, but I'll keep checking back here to see what modern Friends have to say about Clarkson's words.

By: forrest curo

forrest curo — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:31:15 +0000

So why turn to an outsider’s description of the visible externals of the Quaker movement some time ago?
If you want to have what the early Friends had, do what they did! Turn to the Spirit that lives in us, which does new things because it is intrinsically creative, bureaucrat-repellant, and able even to heal the bland!
The mentality we need to struggle with is all-pervasive & deadly! It is right under our noses, and in them! And so very reasonable…
What do you do when faced with a decision? Sit down and think about what’s likely to be most effective? Thou are a Modern! (And obviously, it is not only particularly clueless people who suffer from that condition!)
God is present, and available for consultation, charging no more for his services than all you have and are! You can’t use him to forward your plans… but if he uses you, remarkable things happen! Quakerism without the knowledge of divine guidance and help is a dead husk–but you don’t need to be Quaker to live in that knowledge!

By: Craig

Craig — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:04:24 +0000

I suppose I’m one of the lucky ones. The Monthly Meeting to which I belong is quite Christocentric for the most part. When my partner and I want to be “uber-Conservative”, we attend West Grove Meeting (http://westgrovefriendsnc.org/default.aspx) in Snow Camp. There, it is not too uncommon to have such readings as the “Letter to the Governor of Barbados” after Meeting for Worship.
All this AND they recently put a welcoming statement on their website stating they are “Open and Affirming.” Now, if they’d only get indoor bathrooms and air conditioning.
It saddens my heart that there are folks like yourself that can’t find a Meeting in which they feel comfortable (that invitation to move to NC is still open). I have no advise on what to do other than to let you know you continue to be in my prayers. And don’t you DARE go the way of Rome (just picking Julie).
What strengthens my faith is reading the old Friends’ works such as “The Journal of John Wilber” and “The Journal of Joseph Hoag”. They wrestled with some of the very things you wrestle with today. It lets me know you, we, are not alone…we are surrounded by “so great a cloud of witnesses”.
God bless ya, Martin. Glad to see you’re back to doing some regular bloging.
Love and peace,
Craig

By: cath

cath — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:13:01 +0000

In reply to Paul L. AliceM said: I think 'finding a meeting' might be overrated. What would it be like instead to just start in your street, your area, gather together a group of people who want to try the radical simple Quaker way of living with God? Reappropriation of the founding charism. Just a thought. ------- Thank you for posting this! I wish more Friends were thinking/acting on this concept (I know some are, but I wish more were). I'm working my way there, myself. Cath

By: Paul L

Paul L — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:38:38 +0000

Sounds like fun. Not sure whether our meeting has Clarkson in our library, but I’ll check. The Google link you provided begins w volume 2 — hence Robin’s excitement about marriage, which is a funny place to start, it seems to me — was that intentional, Martin?
I’ve read ch 1–2 already. What delightful clarity of expression and thinking, is my first thought.…

By: Julie Heiland

Julie Heiland — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:19:04 +0000

No I will NOT leave Catholicism, even though it appears that some of the powers that be in the Diocese have. However, depending on how this whole thing plays out, there's the possibility of leaving the diocese to attend a church that is acceptable, or even leaving ROMAN Catholicism for another RITE, like the Byzantine rite, which is of course still Catholic and under the authority of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. Catholicism's still Catholicism, Christianity's still Christianity, and God's still God, whether certain diocesan authorities acknowledge it or not. It just becomes harder to explain and justify one's faith when, from within, there is serious misunderstanding and misinformation, when heresy is being promoted from on high. But we must remember Matthew 16:18 "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." SHALL NOT. We must take God at His word and stay on the bark of Peter. Amazingly, the Church has seen worse than the likes of Bishop Galante and survived. Just wanted to clear that up.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:38:44 +0000

Sounds great! I’m in the midst of Barclay’s “Apology” right now, but shouldn’t take me *too* long to catch up with the reading.
An apple for the teacher,
‑Jeff (South Jersey ex-patriot)

By: Nate Swift

Nate Swift — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:39:12 +0000

“Oh, and what can you tell us about this dude?”
Thomas Clarkson was not a Quaker, but worked closely with Quakers for many years in his efforts for the abolition of the slave trade, and seems to have developed an interest in what drove all those Quakers to be so active in such social causes.