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	<title>plain dress - Quaker Ranter</title>
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		<title>Reddit Thread on Quakers and Generative AI Art</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/reddit-thread-on-quakers-and-generative-ai-art/</link>
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		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2026 20:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Quaker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[discern]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[friends]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[outreach]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain dress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quakerism]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[spirituality]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.quakerranter.org/?p=316319</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Quakerism is a spirituality that requires active participation. You can't just nod off in the back.]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">An interesting Reddit thread on “<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/Quakers/comments/1vfa99e/quakers_and_generative_ai_art/">Quakers and Generative AI Art</a>” by user balsawoodspirit.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">I encourage Friends to please remember that Generative AI art is produced unethically from AI models that scrape the work of real artists without consent or compensation. In the last few weeks, I have encountered two instances of Quakers using Generative AI as a part of their Outreach. This is deeply disturbing to me. There is no legitimate reason to use Generative AI Art. You can use open source images, you can hire artists, or you can make your own art. Or, use no art at all. Better that than to steal from artists and display art you hand no hand in making.</p>
</blockquote>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">My Facebook feed is awash in terrible AI art accompanied by terrible AI-written feel-good stories, shared as much by Quakers as by any other demographic (my bad for still being on there, perhaps).</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Quakerism is a spirituality that requires active participation. You can’t just nod off in the back (well, you can but you shouldn’t). Quaker communities have been lived experiences. As someone who works daily with writers, it’s stunning just how much AI has become a crutch for people. There are some very active writers in Quaker online spaces whose work is mostly AI. Is it for the social boost that comes from being ubiquitous?</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">A weird tangent but hear me out: if you read a lot of classic Quaker journals, there’s frequently stories from their teens in which the author consciously wrestles with plain dress. They talk about the lost friendships that came when they adopted a more uniform style and also about how hard it is to discern and navigate the inevitable voice of pride inside themselves (look at me, I’m plain!) with their legitimate wish and leading to be of use to the fellowship. That process of wrestling with ego is something that never ends for any of us, but especially not one of these ministers. Knowing when ministry is Spirit-led or ego-fed is a core competency for this work. In the end, the dress didn’t matter so much. But the “baby steps” of worrying about it was an early workout of those discernment muscles.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">When we turn to AI we stop working those muscles and offload so much to the machine. Skipping the baby steps means we’re not necessarily going to be as practiced when important decisions need to be made. Let’s put out bad art if it means we’ll start learning how to put out more authentic art as we develop.</p>
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		<post-id xmlns="com-wordpress:feed-additions:1">316319</post-id>	</item>
		<item>
		<title>What Have Friends Been Reading?</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/what-have-friends-been-reading/</link>
					<comments>https://www.quakerranter.org/what-have-friends-been-reading/#respond</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2025 15:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Quaker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[friends]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[friends journal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain dress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[reading]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.quakerranter.org/?p=280024</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There’s a new top-five list of articles from Friends Journal so far in 2025. We have a couple of news ones—the lawsuits against DHS and the recent Quaker Walk—but we also have more contemplative fair. I like the story of the Friends at William Penn University in Iowa discovering some of the positive qualities of [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">There’s a new <a href="https://www.friendsjournal.org/our-top-five-articles-for-2025-so-far/">top-five list of articles</a> from <em>Friends Journal</em> so far in 2025. We have a couple of news ones—the lawsuits against DHS and the recent Quaker Walk—but we also have more contemplative fair.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">I like the story of the Friends at William Penn University in Iowa discovering some of the positive qualities of plain dress from a internet challenge. And Gail Melix (Greenwater)‘s reflection on being both Quaker and Indigenous is quite moving.</p>



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			Just a moment…		</a>
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		<img decoding="async" src="https://www.friendsjournal.org/favicon.ico" alt="www.friendsjournal.org" class="content_cards_favicon">		www.friendsjournal.org	</div>
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		<post-id xmlns="com-wordpress:feed-additions:1">280024</post-id>	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Isaac Smith on Quaker Faith &#038; Podcast on Plainness</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/isaac-smith-on-quaker-faith-podcast-on-plainness/</link>
					<comments>https://www.quakerranter.org/isaac-smith-on-quaker-faith-podcast-on-plainness/#respond</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Quaker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DKNY]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[edition]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[form]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Isaac Smith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kenneth Cole]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[listening]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark Zuckerberg]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[one]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain dress]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.quakerranter.org/isaac-smith-on-quaker-faith-podcast-on-plainness/</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thoughts after listening to the latest edition of the podcast: So we can imagine Mark Zuckerberg and his assistant both wearing t‑shirts and jeans, but one of them buys from, say, DKNY or Kenneth Cole, while the other buys from Target or Wal-Mart. This would count as a responsible form of plain dress, per Barclay. [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thoughts after listening to the latest edition of the podcast:</p>
<blockquote><p>So we can imagine Mark Zuckerberg and his assistant both wearing t‑shirts and jeans, but one of them buys from, say, DKNY or Kenneth Cole, while the other buys from Target or Wal-Mart. This would count as a responsible form of plain dress, per Barclay.</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="wp-embedded-content" data-secret="oi5BPKCkMI"><p><a href="https://theanarchyoftheranters.wordpress.com/2018/08/28/quaker-faith-podcast-on-plainness/">Quaker Faith &amp; Podcast on&nbsp;Plainness</a></p></blockquote>
<p><iframe class="wp-embedded-content" sandbox="allow-scripts" security="restricted"  title="“Quaker Faith &amp; Podcast on&nbsp;Plainness” — The Anarchy of the Ranters" src="https://theanarchyoftheranters.wordpress.com/2018/08/28/quaker-faith-podcast-on-plainness/embed/#?secret=5VES8KCQx1#?secret=oi5BPKCkMI" data-secret="oi5BPKCkMI" width="600" height="338" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no"></iframe></p>
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		<post-id xmlns="com-wordpress:feed-additions:1">61334</post-id>	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Barking up the family tree</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/barking-up-the-family-tree/</link>
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		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2018 00:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Quaker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[childhood]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[emails]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fire]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[forum]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[last]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lina Blount]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[living]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[look]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[number]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain dress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quaker meetings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quakerspeak]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[start]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[united states]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=60896</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There’s a number of common gateways for seekers to discover Quakers–activism is a common one (see last week’s QuakerSpeak interview with Lina Blount), as is&#160;plain dress&#160;(my posts on the topic are my most popular), as is childhood experiences at Quaker schools. But a big gateway is genealogy. Over the years I’ve gotten countless emails and [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There’s a number of common gateways for seekers to discover Quakers–activism is a common one (see last week’s <a href="http://quakerspeak.com/how-activism-led-me-to-quakers/">QuakerSpeak interview with Lina Blount</a>), as is&nbsp;<a href="https://www.quakerranter.org/resources_on_quaker_plain_dres/">plain dress</a>&nbsp;(my posts on the topic are my most popular), as is <a href="https://www.friendsjournal.org/studentvoices2018/">childhood experiences at Quaker schools</a>.</p>
<p>But a big gateway is genealogy. Over the years I’ve gotten countless emails and phone calls from excited newcomers who start off the conversation with details of their family tree (when I used to answer the Quakerbooks phone, I would let these folks go for about two minutes before gently interjecting “wow that’s fascinating!, do you wanna buy a book?!?”)</p>
<p>One fascinating factoid in this week’s QuakerSpeak video comes from Thomas Hamm:</p>
<blockquote><p>If your family arrived in the United States before 1860, there’s probably a 50–50 chance that you have a Quaker ancestor somewhere.</p></blockquote>
<p>Quaker Meetings shouldn’t try to be the gathering spots for prodigal family reunions. The early Quakers were strangers to one another, joining together because of the fire of their convictions. Ours is&nbsp;a living, breathing, ever evolving spiritual practice. Still: we are also a grouping of people. We look for belonging.</p>
<p>The longer I’m with Friends, the more I think ours is a religious community that draws strength from the tension of paradoxes.&nbsp;I have a soft spot for the old Quaker families. If Jesus brings some of the new people in through Beliefnet quizzes or Ancestry.com search results, well, maybe that’s okay.</p>
<p>http://quakerspeak.com/how-to-research-your-quaker-ancestry/</p>
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		<post-id xmlns="com-wordpress:feed-additions:1">60896</post-id>	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Russian Old Believers in Millville NJ</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/russian-old-believers-in-millville-nj/</link>
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		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[South Jersey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[communities]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[course]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[end]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Greek Orthodox]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[history]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Millville]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Millville NJ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Muslim Ottomans]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nj]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Old Believers--so]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[photos]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[profile]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Russian Orthodox Christians]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[St Nicholas Center]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[St Nick]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[state]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[visit]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=16877</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A few weeks ago we were contacted by someone from the St Nicholas Center (http://www.stnicholascenter.org) asking if they could use some photos I had taken of the church my wife is attending, Millville N.J.‘s St Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic. Of course I said yes. But then my correspondent asked if I could take pictures of another [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few weeks ago we were contacted by someone from the St Nicholas Center (<a href="http://www.stnicholascenter.org">http://www.stnicholascenter.org</a>) asking if they could use some photos I had taken of the church my wife is attending, Millville N.J.‘s St Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic. Of course I said yes. But then my correspondent asked if I could take pictures of another church she had heard of: St Nicholas Old Believer’s Church. It’s on the other side of Millville from our St Nick’s, on an ancient road that dead ends in woods. We <em>had</em> to visit.</p>
<p>The Old Believers have a fascinating history. They were Russian Orthodox Christians who refused to comply with liturgical changes mandated by the Patriarch and Czar in the 1650s. As usual, there was a lot of politics involved, with the Czar wanting to cozy up with the Greek Orthodox to ally Russia against the Muslim Ottomans, etc., etc. The theological charge was that the Greek traditions were the standard and Russian differences latter-day innovations to be stamped out (more modern research has found the Russians actually were closer to the older forms, but no matter: what the Czar and Patriarch want, the Czar and Patriarch get). The old practices were banned, beginning hundreds of years of state-sponsored persecution for the “Old Believers.” The survivors scattered to the four corners of the Russian empire and beyond, keeping a low profile wherever they went.</p>
<p>The Old Believers have a fascinating fractured history. Because their priests were killed off in the seventeenth century, they lost their claims of apostolic succession–the idea that there’s an unbroken line of ordination from Jesus Christ himself. Some Old Believers found work-arounds or claimed a few priests were spared but the hardcore among them declared succession over, signaling the end times and the fall of the Church. They became priestless Old Believers–so defensive of the old liturgy that they were willing to lose most of the liturgy. They’ve scattered around the world, often wearing plain dress and living in isolated communities.</p>
<p>The Old Believers church in Millville has no signs, no website, no indication of what it is (a lifelong member of “our” St Nick’s called it mysterious and said he little about it of it). From a few internet references, they appear to be the priestless kind of Old Believers. But it has its own distinctions: apparently one of the greatest iconographers of the twentieth century lived and worshipped there, and when famed Russian political prisoner Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn visited the U.S. he made a point of speaking at this signless church on a dead end road.</p>
<p><strong>Links:</strong><br>
* Wikipedia: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Believers">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Believers</a><br>
* Account of US Lithuanian Bespopovtsy communities: <a href="http://www.synaxis.info/old-rite/0_oldbelief/history_eng/nicoll.html">http://www.synaxis.info/old-rite/0_oldbelief/history_eng/nicoll.html</a><br>
* OSU Library on iconographer Sofronv (PDF): <a href="http://cmrs.osu.edu/rcmss/CMH21color.pdf">http://cmrs.osu.edu/rcmss/CMH21color.pdf</a><br>
* Solzhenitsyn’s 1976 visit: <a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2057793/posts">http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f‑news/2057793/posts</a></p>
<p style="clear: both;"><a href="https://plus.google.com/photos/118137693598946900921/albums/5719520671439843969">In album St Nicholas Old Believers, Millville NJ (9 photos)</a></p>
<div><a href="https://i0.wp.com/lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Jq0REjZVAZ4/T1_Rv9c8byI/AAAAAAAAHKY/JILB8O9dJwQ/s0-d/IMG_20120310_180951.jpg?ssl=1"><img data-recalc-dims="1" decoding="async" style="max-width: 97.5%; clear: both;" src="https://i0.wp.com/lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Jq0REjZVAZ4/T1_Rv9c8byI/AAAAAAAAHKY/JILB8O9dJwQ/s0-d/IMG_20120310_180951.jpg?w=640&#038;ssl=1" alt border="0"></a></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style="float: left; display: block; height: 60px; width: 60px; overflow: hidden; margin-right: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px;"><a href="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kRsxTNJWqKQ/T1_Rv4CMEcI/AAAAAAAAHKY/94ZA7yU-j7s/s0-d/IMG_20120310_180921.jpg"><img decoding="async" style="max-width: none;" src="http://images0-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com/gadgets/proxy?container=focus&amp;gadget=a&amp;resize_h=100&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-kRsxTNJWqKQ%2FT1_Rv4CMEcI%2FAAAAAAAAHKY%2F94ZA7yU-j7s%2Fw72-h96%2FIMG_20120310_180921.jpg" alt border="0"></a></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style="float: left; display: block; height: 60px; width: 60px; overflow: hidden; margin-right: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px;"><a href="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hGoQitv27rk/T1_RvzGH2GI/AAAAAAAAHKY/lgJK3Zlv0sg/s0-d/IMG_20120310_180853.jpg"><img decoding="async" style="max-width: none;" src="http://images0-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com/gadgets/proxy?container=focus&amp;gadget=a&amp;resize_h=100&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2F-hGoQitv27rk%2FT1_RvzGH2GI%2FAAAAAAAAHKY%2FlgJK3Zlv0sg%2Fw128-h96%2FIMG_20120310_180853.jpg" alt border="0"></a></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style="float: left; display: block; height: 60px; width: 60px; overflow: hidden; margin-right: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px;"><a href="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-29mDLyyV-E0/T1_Rv8-ExaI/AAAAAAAAHKY/DFUnIJHme9g/s0-d/IMG_20120310_180829.jpg"><img decoding="async" style="max-width: none;" src="http://images0-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com/gadgets/proxy?container=focus&amp;gadget=a&amp;resize_h=100&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-29mDLyyV-E0%2FT1_Rv8-ExaI%2FAAAAAAAAHKY%2FDFUnIJHme9g%2Fw72-h96%2FIMG_20120310_180829.jpg" alt border="0"></a></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style="float: left; display: block; height: 60px; width: 60px; overflow: hidden; margin-right: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px;"><a href="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JzzRMbcMmNo/T1_Rv2q6sQI/AAAAAAAAHKY/OMhcDqSgrgo/s0-d/IMG_20120310_180756.jpg"><img decoding="async" style="max-width: none;" src="http://images0-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com/gadgets/proxy?container=focus&amp;gadget=a&amp;resize_h=100&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2F-JzzRMbcMmNo%2FT1_Rv2q6sQI%2FAAAAAAAAHKY%2FOMhcDqSgrgo%2Fw72-h96%2FIMG_20120310_180756.jpg" alt border="0"></a></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style="float: left; display: block; height: 60px; width: 60px; overflow: hidden; margin-right: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px;"><a href="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v_QDROPTPb0/T1_Rv5zdztI/AAAAAAAAHKY/ULW0SAqHEGk/s0-d/IMG_20120310_181033.jpg"><img decoding="async" style="max-width: none;" src="http://images0-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com/gadgets/proxy?container=focus&amp;gadget=a&amp;resize_h=100&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Flh4.googleusercontent.com%2F-v_QDROPTPb0%2FT1_Rv5zdztI%2FAAAAAAAAHKY%2FULW0SAqHEGk%2Fw72-h96%2FIMG_20120310_181033.jpg" alt border="0"></a></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
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<p>&nbsp;</p>
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<p>&nbsp;</p>
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		<post-id xmlns="com-wordpress:feed-additions:1">16877</post-id>	</item>
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		<title>Margaret Fell’s Red Dress</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/margaret_fells_red_dress_2004/</link>
					<comments>https://www.quakerranter.org/margaret_fells_red_dress_2004/#comments</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Quaker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[discipline]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[everyone]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Friend]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[george fox]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[group]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Margaret Fell]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Modest Dress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[order]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain dress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religious]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[set]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[silly]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[story]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[time]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=790</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wrote this in Eighth Month 2004 for the Plainandmodestdress discussion group back when the red dress MacGuffin made it’s appearance on that board. I wonder if it’s not a good time for the Margaret Fell story. She was one of the most important founders of the Quaker movement, a feisty, outspoken, hardworking and politically [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-weight: bold;">I wrote this in Eighth Month 2004 for the <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PlainAndModestDress/">Plainandmodestdress</a> discussion group back when the red dress <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin">MacGuffin</a> made it’s appearance on that board.</span></p>
<p>I wonder if it’s not a good time for the Margaret Fell story. She was one of the most important founders of the Quaker movement, a feisty, outspoken, hardworking and politically powerful early Friend who later married George Fox.</p>
<p>The story goes that one day Margaret wore a red dress to Meeting. Another Friend complained that it was gaudy. She shot back in a letter that it was a “silly poor gospel” to question her dress. In my branch of Friends, this story is endlessly repeated out of context to prove that “plain dress” isn’t really Quaker. (I haven’t looked up to see if I have the actual details correct–I’m telling the apocryphal version of this tale.)</p>
<p>Before declaring her Friend’s complaint “silly poor gospel” Margaret explains that Friends have set up monthly, quarterly and yearly meeting structures in order to discipline those walking out of line of the truth. She follows it by saying that we should be “covered with God’s eternal Spirit, and clothed with his eternal Light.”</p>
<p>It seems really clear here that Margaret is using this exchange as a teaching opportunity to demonstrate the process of gospel order. Individuals are charged with trying to follow Christ’s commands, and we should expect that these might lead to all sorts of seemingly-odd appearances (even red dresses!). What matters is NOT the outward form of plain dress, but the inward spiritual obedience that it (hopefully!) mirrors. Gospel order says it’s the Meeting’s role to double-guess individuals and labor with them and discipline them if need be. Individuals enforcing a dress code of conformity with snarky comments after meeting is legalism–it’s not gospel order and not proper Quaker process (I would argue it’s a variant of “detraction”).</p>
<p>This concern over legalism is something that is distinctly Quaker. Other faiths are fine with written down, clearly-articulated outward forms. Look at creeds for example: it’s considered fine for everyone to repeat a set phrasing of belief, even though we might know or suspect that not everyone in church is signing off on all the parts in it as they mutter along. Quakers are really sticklers on this and so avoid creeds altogether. In worship, you should only give ministry if you are actively moved of the Lord to deliver it and great care should be given that you don’t “outrun your Guide” or add unnecessary rhetorical flourishes.</p>
<p>This Plain and Modest Dress discussion group is&nbsp; meant for people of all sorts of religious backgrounds of course. It might be interesting some time to talk about the different assumptions and rationales each of our religious traditions bring to the plain dress question. I think this anti-legalism that would distinguish Friends.</p>
<p>For Friends, I don’t think the point is that we should have a formal list of acceptable colors–we shouldn’t get too obsessed over the “red or not red” question. I don’t suspect Margaret would want us spending too much time working out details of a standard pan-Quaker uniform. “Legalism” is a silly poor gospel for Friends. There’s a great people to be gathered and a lot of work to do. The plainness within is the fruit of our devotion and it can certainly shine through any outward color or fashion!</p>
<p>If I lived to see the day when all the Quakers were dressing alike and gossiping about how others were led to clothe themselves, I’d break out a red dress too! But then, come to think about it, I DO live in a Quaker world where there’s WAY TOO MUCH conformity in thought and dress and where there’s WAY TOO MUCH idle gossip when someone adopts plain dress. Where I live, suspenders and broadfalls might as well be a red dress!</p>
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		<post-id xmlns="com-wordpress:feed-additions:1">790</post-id>	</item>
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		<title>Reading John Woolman 2: The Last Safe Quaker</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/reading-john-woolman-2-last-safe-quaker/</link>
					<comments>https://www.quakerranter.org/reading-john-woolman-2-last-safe-quaker/#respond</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Quaker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[acknowledged]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[act]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[activist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[clothes]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[course]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[experience]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Friend]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[john woolman]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[minister]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mount Holly]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[need]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain dress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Reading John Woolman]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religious]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spiritual]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=37070</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Reading John Woolman Series: 1: The Public Life of a Private Man 2: The Last Safe Quaker 3: The Isolated Saint Someone who only knew Woolman from articles in popular Quaker periodicals might be forgiven for a moment of shock when opening his book. John Woolman is so much more religious than we usually acknowledge. [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Reading John Woolman Series:<br>
1: <a href="https://www.quakerranter.org/reading-woolman-1-public-life-private-man/">The Public Life of a Private Man</a><br>
2: <a href="https://www.quakerranter.org/reading-john-woolman-2-last-safe-quaker/">The Last Safe Quaker</a><br>
3: <a href="https://www.quakerranter.org/reading_woolman_part_three_the/">The Isolated Saint</a></strong></p>
<p>Someone who only knew Woolman from articles in popular Quaker periodicals might be forgiven for a moment of shock when opening his book. John Woolman is so much more religious than we usually acknowledge. We describe him as an activist even though he and his contemporaries clearly saw and named him a minister. There are many instances where he described the inhumanity of the slave trade and he clearly identified with the oppressed but he almost always did so with from a Biblical perspective. He acknowledged that religious faithfulness could exist outside his beloved Society of Friends but his life’s work was calling Friends to live a profoundly Christian life. Flip to a random page of the journal and you’ll probably count half a dozen metaphors for God. Yes, he was a social activist but he was also a deeply religious minister of the gospel.</p>
<p>So why do we wrap ourselves up in Woolman like he’s the flag of proto-liberal Quakerism? In an culture where Quaker authority is deeply distrusted and appeals to the Bible or to Quaker history are routinely dismissed, he has become the last safe Friend to claim. His name is invoked as a sort of talisman against critique, as a rhetorical show-stopper.&nbsp;<em>“If you don’t agree with my take on the environment/tax resistance/universalism, you’re the moral equivalent of Woolman’s slave holders.”</em>&nbsp;(Before the emails start flooding in, remember I’m writing this as a&nbsp;<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20060830025652/http://www.nonviolence.org/martink/the_end_is_near.php">dues-paying</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20060830025652/http://www.nonviolence.org/">activist Quaker</a>&nbsp;myself.) We don’t need to agree with him to engage with him and learn from him. But we do need to be honest about what he believed and open to admitting when we disagree. We shouldn’t use him simply as a stooge for our own agenda.</p>
<p>I like Woolman but I have my disagreements. His scrupulousness was over the top. My own personality tends toward a certain purity, exemplified by fifteen years of veganism, my plain dress, my being car-less into my late thirties. I’ve learned that I need to moderate this tendency. My purity can sometimes be a sign of an elitism that wants to separate myself from the world (I’ve learned to laugh at myself more). Asceticism can be a powerful spiritual lens but it can also burn a self- and world-hatred into us. I’ve had friends on the brink of suicide (literally) over this kind of scrupulousness. I worry when a new Friend finds my&nbsp;<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20060830025652/http://www.nonviolence.org/quaker/plain/">plain pages</a>&nbsp;and is in broadfalls and bonnets a few weeks later, knowing from my own experience that the speed of their gusto sometimes rushes a discernment practice that needs to rest and settle before it is fully owned (the most personally challenging of the&nbsp;<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20060830025652/http://www.tractassociation.org/FiveTestsForDiscerningATrueLeading.html">traditional tests of Quaker discernment</a>&nbsp;is “patience”).</p>
<p>John Woolman presents an awfully high bar for future generations. He reports refusing medicine when illness brought him to the brink of death, preferring to see fevers as signs of God’s will. While that might have been the smarter course in an pre-hygienic era when doctors often did more harm than good, this Christian Scientist-like attitude is not one I can endorse. He sailed to England deep in the hold along with the cattle because he thought the woodwork unnecessarily pretty in the passenger cabins. While his famous wearing of un-dyed garments was rooted partly in the outrages of the manufacturing process, he talked much more eloquently about the inherent evil of wearing clothes that might hide stains, arguing that anyone who would try to hide stains on their clothes would be that much more likely to hide their internal spiritual stains (all I could think about when reading this was that he must have left child-rearing duties to the well-inclined Sarah).</p>
<p>Woolman proudly relates (in his famously humble style) how he once tried to shut down a traveling magic act that was scheduled to play at the local inn. I suspect that if any of us somehow found ourselves on his clearness committee we might find a way to tell him to… well,&nbsp;<em>lighten up</em>. I sympathize with his concerns against mindless entertainment but telling the good people of Mount Holly that they can’t see a disappearing rabbit act because of his religious sensibilities is more Taliban than most of us would feel comfortable with.</p>
<p>He was a man of his times and that’s okay. We can take him for what he is. We shouldn’t dismiss any of his opinions too lightly for he really was a great religious and ethical figure. But we might think twice before enlisting the party pooper of Mount Holly for our cause.</p>
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		<post-id xmlns="com-wordpress:feed-additions:1">37070</post-id>	</item>
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		<title>I’d Give the Moon If It Were Mine to Give</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/id_give_the_moon_if_it_were_mi/</link>
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		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hipster]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[love]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mp3]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plain dress]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I’ve always promised that I wouldn’t let this blog get so serious that I couldn’t share the ephemera of life. In that vein, here’s a caution for any would-be urban plain-dress hipster: it’s really hard to keep to the proper sidewalk demeanor when your MP3 player queues up the Yardbird’s “For Your Love.” Especially when [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve always promised that I wouldn’t let this blog get so serious that I couldn’t share the ephemera of life. In that vein, here’s a caution for any would-be urban plain-dress hipster: it’s really hard to keep to the proper sidewalk demeanor when your MP3 player queues up the Yardbird’s “For Your Love.”<br>
Especially when the bongos kick in.<br>
This I know experientially.</p>
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