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	Comments on: The Not-Quite-So Young Quakers	</title>
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	<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/</link>
	<description>A Weekly Newsletter and Blog from Martin Kelley</description>
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		<title>
		By: Mary Kay Rehard		</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194113</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Kay Rehard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=765#comment-194113</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Convergent October info is now posted on &quot;Friendly Circle - Cincinnati,&quot; a cyber space designed for inter-meeting sharing, and linked to the news &#038; events blog for the Greater Cincinnati area, www.quakersincincinnati.blogspot.com/, neither of which are &quot;approved&quot; by any single meeting... Finding our way, or trying to, by hosting midweek worship and circulating among the three meetings here! Cheers, Mary Kay Rehard]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Convergent October info is now posted on “Friendly Circle — Cincinnati,” a cyber space designed for inter-meeting sharing, and linked to the news &amp; events blog for the Greater Cincinnati area, <a href="http://www.quakersincincinnati.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.quakersincincinnati.blogspot.com/</a>, neither of which are “approved” by any single meeting… Finding our way, or trying to, by hosting midweek worship and circulating among the three meetings here! Cheers, Mary Kay Rehard</p>
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		<title>
		By: maurine pyle		</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194110</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maurine pyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=765#comment-194110</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have been reading your blog for a few months now, Martin, and have found so much wisdom there, even for an old grey-haired Quaker like me. I share your understanding of what I have called &quot;the other Quaker silence.&quot; By that I mean an emptyness of faith and purpose which is eroding our meetings. What can fill the open space? I find myself returning to read Matthew Arnold&#039;s famous poem &quot;Dover Beach&quot; which references receding faith. He writes, 
THE SEA OF FAITH
WAS ONCE, TOO, AT THE FULL, AND ROUND EARTH&#039;S SHORE
BUT NOW I ONLY HEAR
ITS MELANCHOLY, LONG, WITHDRAWING ROAR....

We are called to renew our roots as Christians and as Quakers. An Adult Young Friend at FWCC recently asked me what would bring us Friends back together? My reply was, &quot;Christ called us together in the beginning, and Christ will call us back together.&quot;

Keep up the good fight, Martin. I pray for you and other Friends to come together in Love.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been reading your blog for a few months now, Martin, and have found so much wisdom there, even for an old grey-haired Quaker like me. I share your understanding of what I have called “the other Quaker silence.” By that I mean an emptyness of faith and purpose which is eroding our meetings. What can fill the open space? I find myself returning to read Matthew Arnold’s famous poem “Dover Beach” which references receding faith. He writes,<br>
THE SEA OF FAITH<br>
WAS ONCE, TOO, AT THE FULL, AND ROUND EARTH’S SHORE<br>
BUT NOW I ONLY HEAR<br>
ITS MELANCHOLY, LONG, WITHDRAWING ROAR.…</p>
<p>We are called to renew our roots as Christians and as Quakers. An Adult Young Friend at FWCC recently asked me what would bring us Friends back together? My reply was, “Christ called us together in the beginning, and Christ will call us back together.”</p>
<p>Keep up the good fight, Martin. I pray for you and other Friends to come together in Love.</p>
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		<title>
		By: timothy travis		</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194108</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[timothy travis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=765#comment-194108</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Martin

May I please write to you off line?

Please send me an e mail.

Thanks

Timothy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin</p>
<p>May I please write to you off line?</p>
<p>Please send me an e mail.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Timothy</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wess		</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194107</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wess]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=765#comment-194107</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194104&quot;&gt;Timothy Travis&lt;/a&gt;.

I agree with you that we may be guilty as Christians, but I think it has more to do with unfaithfulness and not putting forth a &quot;Quakerism worth believing in.&quot; I think this is largely due to our own compromises and inability to read &quot;the signs of the times.&quot;

Otherwise, I fail to understand why reaction and renewal need to be separate things. In fact, I&#039;d argue one without the other is misguided. 
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194104">Timothy Travis</a>.</p>
<p>I agree with you that we may be guilty as Christians, but I think it has more to do with unfaithfulness and not putting forth a “Quakerism worth believing in.” I think this is largely due to our own compromises and inability to read “the signs of the times.”</p>
<p>Otherwise, I fail to understand why reaction and renewal need to be separate things. In fact, I’d argue one without the other is misguided. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Martin Kelley		</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194105</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Kelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=765#comment-194105</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194104&quot;&gt;Timothy Travis&lt;/a&gt;.

@Timothy: my &quot;agenda,&quot; as you so politely put it, is to share the good news of Christ&#039;s presence and love and guidance, and to share hundreds of years of Quaker/Christian know-how of how to hear and act on it. Everything else is distraction.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194104">Timothy Travis</a>.</p>
<p>@Timothy: my “agenda,” as you so politely put it, is to share the good news of Christ’s presence and love and guidance, and to share hundreds of years of Quaker/Christian know-how of how to hear and act on it. Everything else is distraction.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Travis		</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194104</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Travis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=765#comment-194104</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have been watching from the edge of all this and have some sympathy for your &quot;agenda&quot; although I do see your movement as one of reaction rather than renewal.   

I am as sure of the truth of the Society suffering from Friends&#039; lack of commitment to the transformation of themselves, their meetings and their world as I am about the falseness of renewal through oversight and (external) discipline as ends (remember, there are no means).  My study tells me that&#039;s how we got the fractured Society that we have today, with the separate domains whose witness has become a whisper.

I appreciate your call to step outside the current domains, but for what?  To set up another?  If that is not where you want to be in five years then you are not expressing yourself very clearly.  Perhaps I have a log in my ear that causes me to hear much I appreciate from within your movement and yet much that causes me to wonder how, in Gamaliel&#039;s scheme, it will come out.

A radical inclusiveness of the kind that I find expressed in early Friends literature--the kind that Joel and Hannah Bean looked back on--abides in patient humility with that which contends with it.  Expressions like &quot;screw them&quot; doesn&#039;t seem consistent with such a faith and practice and that makes it harder for me, as I say, to hear.  Perhaps the spirit underlying such a response makes it more difficult for others to hear, as well.  Or perhaps you&#039;re not on the right side of Gamaliel&#039;s dichotomy.  I don&#039;t know.  In the course of time it will be known.

The inclusiveness of which I speak does not see or seek a day in which everyone says the name Jesus/Christ, but, rather, one in which I can say that name as the ground of my faith and the &quot;post Christians&quot; and those otherwise grounded will be accepting of that.   The day I see and seek is one in which all the names of God will be included as elaboration on the Light which is, as you know, what Fox, Penn, Woolman and others experienced--the &quot;movement&quot; that, heeded and obeyed, conformed people to it regardless of what forms or theology they claimed.  

Right now in the part of the Society in which I find myself planted--never intended to become a domain but rapidly approaching that condition--people do say negative things about Christians--going so far as to rename us, to give us a cute (perhaps less threatening?) pet name--Christo-centric.   

No, of course that&#039;s not right.  It&#039;s a name imposed on us (sometimes from within our own number and perhaps even starting there) to remind us that we are not the only geese on the lawn.

The negative comments about the Christian church will stop, I think, at some point after  those of us who are Christians stop making negative--or at best conditional or qualified or oh, so tolerant positive--remarks about other people&#039;s spirituality.  We may accept the reality of other geese but we are making the biggest mess on the lawn.  We bring on the reaction we find so painful.  

&quot;How does it feel?&quot;  goes the old song.

As you look outward--while not advising folks to leave their meetings (yet?)--I entreat you to look inward; both at the husk you apparently consider your meeting to be and at yourself.  When asked why he did not leave his yearly meeting after it was converted from his beloved Orthodox faith and practice to that of American Protestantism, Joel Bean responded:

“I was directed to His own perfect example.  He never separated Himself from His people in all their opposition and enmity toward Him.  He did not disown the Church of His Birthright, though it disowned Him.&quot; (letter to R. H. Thomas, 2nd Month 8, 1899)

Godspeed, Martin.  

Don&#039;t let it wear you down.  God has great work for you to do.





]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been watching from the edge of all this and have some sympathy for your “agenda” although I do see your movement as one of reaction rather than renewal.   </p>
<p>I am as sure of the truth of the Society suffering from Friends’ lack of commitment to the transformation of themselves, their meetings and their world as I am about the falseness of renewal through oversight and (external) discipline as ends (remember, there are no means).  My study tells me that’s how we got the fractured Society that we have today, with the separate domains whose witness has become a whisper.</p>
<p>I appreciate your call to step outside the current domains, but for what?  To set up another?  If that is not where you want to be in five years then you are not expressing yourself very clearly.  Perhaps I have a log in my ear that causes me to hear much I appreciate from within your movement and yet much that causes me to wonder how, in Gamaliel’s scheme, it will come out.</p>
<p>A radical inclusiveness of the kind that I find expressed in early Friends literature–the kind that Joel and Hannah Bean looked back on–abides in patient humility with that which contends with it.  Expressions like “screw them” doesn’t seem consistent with such a faith and practice and that makes it harder for me, as I say, to hear.  Perhaps the spirit underlying such a response makes it more difficult for others to hear, as well.  Or perhaps you’re not on the right side of Gamaliel’s dichotomy.  I don’t know.  In the course of time it will be known.</p>
<p>The inclusiveness of which I speak does not see or seek a day in which everyone says the name Jesus/Christ, but, rather, one in which I can say that name as the ground of my faith and the “post Christians” and those otherwise grounded will be accepting of that.   The day I see and seek is one in which all the names of God will be included as elaboration on the Light which is, as you know, what Fox, Penn, Woolman and others experienced–the “movement” that, heeded and obeyed, conformed people to it regardless of what forms or theology they claimed.  </p>
<p>Right now in the part of the Society in which I find myself planted–never intended to become a domain but rapidly approaching that condition–people do say negative things about Christians–going so far as to rename us, to give us a cute (perhaps less threatening?) pet name–Christo-centric.   </p>
<p>No, of course that’s not right.  It’s a name imposed on us (sometimes from within our own number and perhaps even starting there) to remind us that we are not the only geese on the lawn.</p>
<p>The negative comments about the Christian church will stop, I think, at some point after  those of us who are Christians stop making negative–or at best conditional or qualified or oh, so tolerant positive–remarks about other people’s spirituality.  We may accept the reality of other geese but we are making the biggest mess on the lawn.  We bring on the reaction we find so painful.  </p>
<p>“How does it feel?”  goes the old song.</p>
<p>As you look outward–while not advising folks to leave their meetings (yet?)–I entreat you to look inward; both at the husk you apparently consider your meeting to be and at yourself.  When asked why he did not leave his yearly meeting after it was converted from his beloved Orthodox faith and practice to that of American Protestantism, Joel Bean responded:</p>
<p>“I was directed to His own perfect example.  He never separated Himself from His people in all their opposition and enmity toward Him.  He did not disown the Church of His Birthright, though it disowned Him.” (letter to R. H. Thomas, 2nd Month 8, 1899)</p>
<p>Godspeed, Martin.  </p>
<p>Don’t let it wear you down.  God has great work for you to do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wess		</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194103</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wess]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=765#comment-194103</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194100&quot;&gt;Jeremiah&lt;/a&gt;.

Here&#039;s more info on Convergent October -- http://snurl.com/3qe04  [convergentfriends_org] ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194100">Jeremiah</a>.</p>
<p>Here’s more info on Convergent October — <a href="http://snurl.com/3qe04" rel="nofollow ugc">http://snurl.com/3qe04</a>  [convergentfriends_org] </p>
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		<title>
		By: Laura		</title>
		<link>https://www.quakerranter.org/the_not-quite-so_young_quakers/#comment-194102</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quakerranter.org/?p=765#comment-194102</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the renovation, both in format and focus.


In Christian Friendship,

Laura  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the renovation, both in format and focus.</p>
<p>In Christian Friendship,</p>
<p>Laura  </p>
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